Badpuppy Gay Today

Monday, 02 March 1998

BOB KUNST: THE ORAL MAJORITY VERSUS THE CAYMANS & MAINE


Interview by Jack Nichols



 

Jack Nichols: You battle windmills, like Don Quixote, an energy bunny that goes and goes. You're fifty-five now and indefatigable. I remember when you got your first big name recognition battling Anita on national TV and then you battled Jerry Falwell and started up the Oral Majority when he announced his stupid Moral Majority. After that you became one of the nation's most effective AIDS activists—at least that's what TV anchor Peter Jennings said on AIDS Quarterly.

I remember all the huge publicity you grabbed for AIDS, like your 1986 Senate campaign in Florida when you got 150,000 Democrats to support your Cure AIDS Now platform. Last summer you were in the middle of Miami Beach's quest for justice after the murder of Versace.

But now you've organized a new boycott throughout the South to protest the tourist department's dorky decision in the Cayman Islands, and you're talking about boycotting Maine too. What are you doing? Who's helping?

Bob Kunst: From the people who made Anita Bryant's life miserable, we're now boycotting the Cayman Islands and Maine with the same fervency as we did with Orange Juice, a boycott that cost that industry hundreds of millions and led to Anita's firing.

At this point we've had ten television interviews, collected 4,000 signatures on petitions from only six locales. This means there's a need in the South and a desire in the grassroots to react and resist to save America from the anti-sex creeps in and out of our movement. Yesterday, AP, Public Radio and Fox TV got out the word in Maine of our boycott. Forty-five businesses so far are contributing to make this possible.

Also, we've put out 5,000 Caymans My Ass buttons and Why Send a 'Monica' to do a Man's Job buttons and we've gotten 10,000 bumper stickers that say Anywhere but the Caymans—Boycott Bigotry, 1,000 on their way to New Orleans for Mardi Gras along with 1,000 buttons that say Boycott the Pain in Maine. And 1,000 bumper stickers will be circulating in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties in the next couple of days, plus a business in Minneapolis, Minnesota helping.

This indicates the nation's ready for us and one-half our signatures on Lincoln Road on Miami Beach and a great many in New Orleans came from the non-gay community. We're finding there's a desire to strike back, not related to AIDS.

The same closeted set who took a fortune in monies that disappeared during the Anita battle and did not endorse our Orange Juice boycott are the same gang in Maine who blew another $400,000 and are not supporting our boycott, but they should have thought about this before they screwed up this election that now fuels the extreme right to attack us everywhere. They're unforgivable.

Nichols: How can people add their two cents-- help with the Cayman or the Maine boycotts?

Kunst: Circulate petitions, donate monies and be visible with stickers and buttons. Call Maine tourism at 1-800-533-9595 and order everything they have to spend dollars on while we boycott. Call Caymans at 1-800-422-9626 to do the same. Invite us and sponsor us to speak and do media. Help organize an Oral Majority chapter in your city. E-mail and network with everyone about our effort. Write letters to the editors and fax us a copy at (305) 867-1976. Or call us at (305) 864-5110 Speak out on every level.

Nichols: Were you involved in the Anita Bryant orange juice boycott too?

Kunst: Yes, Dr. Alan Rockway and I kicked off the O.J. boycott in front of the Citrus Commission in Lakeland, Florida. Our button said: "No More O.J. From the Unshine State." As I said, we cost the industry hundreds of millions. Even in the statewide Privacy Rights Constitutional Amendment in the 1980 election--which we won by 1,723,000 votes to 1,120,000--out of 60,000 votes cast in Polk County (Lakeland) we won by 33 votes, so heated was the debate.

Nichols: What do you think about Ms. Anita today? She remembers you as "a very dark period", she said.

Kunst: Anita needs to have her career "managed" by someone like me. I'm the only one who can save it. I see her still as someone who is very useful. I consider her a lonely outcast and myself as her last resort, so that I can rehabilitate her as the 'role model' I declared myself to be in 1977.

Nichols: There's another cause you've always trumpeted, that of crushing the bigotry that goes with sexual repression. You've ridden your way—time and again-- into news articles with your uncanny ability to think up feisty slogans. What are the reactions to your latest slogan-button, the one that asks "Why Send a 'Monica' to do a Man's Job?"

Kunst: I wrote Monica a letter and said that since we're both Jewish and into oral sex, I wanted her to know that in the middle of this sexual witchhunt from the extreme right—this attempt to get Clinton even if it means endangering the country—I saw a bigger conspiracy reaching far-- from the Caymans to Maine. I told her that my slogan button—a great seller—implies that only a man with a penis really knows how to take care of another man with a penis, like only other women would understand multiple orgasms. I challenge the people creating the White House sex scandal and the others by exposing the gut heterosexism that's responsible for the violence, hate, guilt, terror and insanity stressing out the nation and the planet. This, of course, escalates the debate from just "oral sex" into what will reduce the tension, guilt, fear, and violence from permeating the "straight" insanity based upon people talking about sex all the time and not getting it.

Or, when they do, it is to molest and rape, which is not the "gay" body political experience based on spontaneity, multiple choice, total freedom and independence in spite of the oppression which is our strength we need to flaunt. Our liberation is really both straight liberation or human liberation.

By defining our experience well before Anita showed up, she was easy pickings. We trusted the public with the truth that did set them free, except for the closeted living multiple lies and lives and bent on destroying all who aren't. It's a disease they're pushing, and too much of the gay movement has caught it—trying to be just like the straight population which can't manage itself, raping one-third of all women, experiencing a 50% divorce rate, abusing their children and the elderly—making, because of their greed, all these groups without moneys expendable and vulnerable.

The military issue makes what I'm saying clear. The Oral Majority's revolution has never been about replacing a hetero general with a homo general—also with his or her finger on the button that can destroy humanity.

We are the "fairies" protecting the forest while the gnomes--the hets—destroy it, detaching themselves from what's natural: touching oneself and both the same and other sexes in all permutations and combinations and possibilities. Relationships are not things we own. The people who kill their lovers because they say they love them—that's a syndrome that's the epitome of Hollywood's nausea approach to relationships, combined with the hypocrisies of most organized witchhunters determined to have an Armageddon to fulfill prophecies.

If "Deepthroat" saved America from Nixon, then the Oral Majority is back to rescue the country.

Nichols: And what about the other button, "Caymans My Ass"?

 

Kunst: "Caymans My Ass" came from the Comedy Channel's, The Daily Show. It ruggedly moons the Caymans while demonstrating our anger through humor. It portends a win-win situation.

Nichols: You've preached oral sex as an OK since day one of the AIDS crisis. Do you think that's wise? What would you say if someone accused you of being an oral mirror of those condom-less anal barebacking enthusiasts?

Kunst: "Oral is Moral and Safe" was our Cure Aids Now button I took to over 50 conferences and sold many thousands of them. If we'd only avoid anal or vaginal sex, tens of millions of AIDS cases could be avoided. So, rather than go with the anti-sex homophobes in our own communities, kissing ass with those who wanted a body count on AIDS and continuing the anti-sex hysteria which would backfire, I wanted to truth to come out—you should pardon the expression—and reduce the stress.

At the same time oral sex offers some level of sexual enjoyment in the middle of the plague, pushed and prolonged as much by the greedy AIDS Mafia, as by the Nazis in the Reagan and Bush gangs wanting us all dead.

Yes, oral sex is wise and I would never spread this disease and hurt anyone. We have to get rid of the lies that cause fear and the tyrannies affecting both HIV positive and HIV-negative peoples.

The issue has never been condoms versus abstinence but care and cure which our own movement has ignored in getting grants to build empires that has cost us dearly with 500,000 of our loved ones dead, and—worldwide—tens of millions of all affectional and sexual preferences.

Nichols: But look…are you sure condoms with oral sex aren't significant? There's a new report out saying oral sex may not be as safe as many people think. A review of published studies showed that viral infections and the HIV virus that causes AIDS may be spread through oral sex. Dr. Sarah Edwards, of West Sussex Hospital in eastern England says—and I quote from the medical journal, Sexually Transmitted Infections, that "Oral sex is a common sexual practice among both heterosexual and homosexual couples. The evidence suggests that HIV transmission can take place through oral-genital sex." The English doctor warns that the spread of HIV infection through oral sex will probably increase as more people avoid other practices that carry a higher risk. How do you respond to this new report?

Kunst: Where are the statistics? The cases? Where there should be tens of millions, there are only a handful. And if there were 1,000, that still wouldn't constitute high risk, but extenuating circumstances. The viruses must enter the bloodstream to do damage. Yet it can't overcome saliva. So if one has holes in the mouth, entry is possible, which might account for some of those cases, but to continue the hysteria to deny sexual pleasure is to keep faith with those who've allowed this genocide upon our community in building a bodycount; stop and regulate behavior; turn the public against us in adding to the witchhunt, and to ignore the needs for care and cure, again not being given just pursuit.

I have personally had oral sex with HIV+ and men with AIDS. I have tested negative ten times. I've heard this argument since 1987, and 11 years later still not coming up with the statistics, which means this is as much a political statement as a medical one. It's like kissing. Yes, the viruses are in saliva, and so no more kissing if one goes to the extreme which is what this whole plague has been about. In the English study on oral sex the issue of lesbians and AIDS seems very strange to me. How many lesbians—or lesbians left out of the AIDS issue trying to get in it finally. Is this Dr. Sarah Edwards a lesbian? With an agenda? Where are the stats? And why, after 13 years of the plague with another 15 years incubation period? Don't trust it. I would also never spread such issues unless I had personally tested it myself. Our Cure AIDS Now button said Oral is Moral and Safe. I still stand by it.

Nichols: How do you feel about the national sex panic that's been whipped up by Republican Party's hit man, Kenneth Starr?

Kunst: Starr uses Nazi tactics and his gang are willing to destroy America to get Clinton, and will break every law to do it. Starr and these guys are very dangerous as are their GOP backers in the KKKongress. Starr's fifth column witchhunt just gave Saddam Hussein a major victory in this total domestic and foreign distraction that's totally undermined both the issues and U.S. credibility.

But he has also managed to prove our point—which is that there are more cocksuckers than fundamentalists—which we said 21 years ago with Anita. Nobody cares about Bill's sexploits, but his lies to cover it up. So our own "so-called" gay leaders who would die first before ever mentioning oral sex are left in the dust with the country's six-year olds asking about it and trying it—as well as making moot whatever hangups these activist queens have.

Nichols: You were arrested making love on Miami Beach at 2:10 a.m. on a deserted part of the beach. That must have been a downer.

Kunst: My arrest was a partial downer, but also an eye-opener on the insane, and scaming and scheming law enforcement system out of control and I identify with Bill Clinton also a victim of entrapment while strengthening me to speak out on police priorities, the ignoring of really evil people who are running loose while these cowards refuse to tackle them. They prefer to keep the populace fearful to keep big bucks coming in to them, continuing this dysfunctional cycle.

However, while I was in angst about how this would play publicly for all my activism, it has only worked to my advantage and I've gone public with relish to fight back against entrapment and police who spend their shifts flirting, getting tax moneys.

Nichols: Tell me what kind of gay movement you'd like to see.

Kunst: My gay movement is defining our own experiences and strengths, flaunting them, demanding taxation with representation and our rights and ending the wrongs—what we do to ourselves making role-models of straights—monogamy, fidelity and eternity in relationships—which while the straights preach these things, even they don't practice and honor them.

Sexual freedom with responsibilities remains our strength and liberates us to be as creative as is our potential and why so many of us shine and have answers for the society as a whole.

We do not need to beg and crawl for what we are due. The phobes are in worse shape than we are and we need to speak out on this. Just be our natural selves and stop leading two or more lives in the closet of lies and deceit and all the internal and unnecessary evil, which is the antithesis of the lovestyles that reduce the tensions and stresses I've talked about.

 

Nichols: The first time I ever met you, in 1976, you invited me to join you as you led a discussion group and acted as master of ceremonies for a discussion group—a support group, really—of about 40 heterosexual couples. They were swingers. Group sex straights. I thought you were a brilliant moderator. You helped them deal with jealousy. Do you remember? What were some of the main problems they faced?

Kunst: "Owning someone" as property. Demanding one to have to meet all of those needs and making life miserable if they don't, or worse, "till death do us part" which is how they "love." Oye. Only thing to control is the "here and now." Being here now is to experience fulfillment, not worrying about futures. We need voluntary communication, not mandated communication.

Smothering a relationship is evil and unnatural and pathologic unless that partner wants this type of communication. Consenting adults, I mean, can beat up on each other if they want to.

Love is trust and truth is trust. Always having to "perform" the roles and rules of behavior society arbitrarily intrudes with are sure ingredients for disaster. What works is the voluntary communication.

Giving up completely to the experience over and over again may last for 30 years but if it only lasted 30 seconds, it too would be a perfect experience never to be duplicated again, in the same way, at least.

Self respect and mutual respect wouldn't place such odious burdens on those who claimed to be loved. Too much Hollywood "If I can't have you, nobody else can either"—bang. That, by you, is love? Oye.

Nichols: Why do you think the Cayman Islands boycott strikes such a sympathetic cord in folks— whether straight or gay-identified?

Kunst: The Caymans issue is so stupid, dumb, suicidal, funny, ignorant. The tourist bureau there singled out a particular group to discriminate against, which is how the Holocaust got started in Germany in the 30s. This kind of stuff fuels the homophobes who want a green light for violence, an OK from government to be violent. This issue can't be ignored. If we let the Caymans get away with it, or Maine, this kind of stinking-thinking will spread elsewhere. First class people find this kind of proud prejudice unacceptable in '98.

The Oral Majority thanks the Caymans for giving us an opportunity to point to their bigotry and put momentum behind the gay movement's cause. This is an opportunity to recapture our movement, as well as an opportunity to get Federal legislation through this other door. With the British and the European Union folks putting pressure on their former colonies to deal with the gay issue, and with Caymans and Maine and Right-wing anti-sex witchhunting, the whole package, kit and caboodle, and what a way to enter the Millennium by putting our dignity and character and moneys on the line as a community with high visibility and an agenda that's missing from our so-called leaders still pussyfooting around the issues and dragging us all in this schmutz in this bankrupt and obsolete nothing effort, costing a fortune and getting us nowhere.

Nichols: You were the founder of the most effective grass roots AIDS organization in the state third hardest hit. You did a great job with that organization too, mostly on your own before you allowed a conservative board on board. I wrote about your accomplishments regularly through the 80s. How do you view the AIDS crisis now? Is it still World War III?

Kunst: Yes, AIDS is World War III. Condoms versus abstinence instead of care and cure, all these divisions by class and internal politics linked with money grabs and power-base-building while ignoring real threats and losses of life.

Survivors have risen to the challenges of this war not because of those in charge. Questioning authority is very necessary and many are still in the dark about AIDS. The questions of race, class, sexual orientation and region, etc., swirl around us and are ignored.

There's still no global policies or real moneys to fight multiple viruses and mutations while moneyed powers destroy the rain forests carrying AIDS answers and potential medicines.

Everyone has the right to know the truths about options that are open in the worldwide struggle and to decide for themselves what to do about it—where to take what they discover. We are, each of us, personally responsible for our actions.

Larry Kramer and his company of anti-sex hysterics do great damage to us all in negating the real issues while playing fascists and overlords that no one appointed them to be. To fulfill their anti-sex egos and pockets with public sympathy, controlling our movement to our detriment.

Nichols: You're a champion of oral sex, as you say, but don't you think something like loving, hugging, group masturbation would offer greater opportunities for ecstatic community? Couldn't we fill up the Orange Bowl, maybe? Or Shea Stadium?

Kunst: Whatever it takes, with permission among consenting adults. Yes, 80,000 masturbating in the Orange Bowl would be very exciting. And 80,000 69ing would be the encore.

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