Ron Van Dyke: To be honest, Jack, you are one of the biggest changes. That may surprise you. To demonstrate what I mean, let me tell a brief story. I started out writing for a New Age publication called Horizons. It is quite bland compared to Paradox, yet they did publish an article by a homosexual psychic while I was writing for them. It was entitled "Homosexuality, 101" and was placed on the page adjacent to my article. I didn't like that at all and told the publisher never to do that to me again.

After beginning Paradox, I still had no intention of making it as liberal as it has become. Then, one day, you called to tell me how much you liked my front-page article in the September 1996 issue. I appreciated your comments and, frankly, did not know what to make of the fact that you told me your sexual orientation through the description of you newly released book, The Gay Agenda: Talking Back to Fundamentalists.

A short time later I happened to pick up Gannett's Florida Today and noticed that you were speaking about your book at the Cocoa Beach library. I simply had to go and hear what you had to say. I was pleased that you quoted from Paradox in your talk, and told you so afterward. I also asked you to write something for publication at that time. That was sticking my neck out from my "programmed" position.

I pondered deeply about having a homosexual writer and felt my guides telling me, "You don't know enough to judge another, and if you did, you wouldn't." That was a profound change for me, and you were certainly a primary catalyst. Since then, of course, you have become a very good friend.

Nichols: What kind of people have you been reaching? Who seems to respond to your provocative messages most?

Van Dyke: The only kind of people I reach are open-minded people. Who responds? All too often it's the angry people, the ones who know all the right answers and try to correct me. And, yes, more and more people are expressing appreciation, amazingly from a relatively broad spectrum from what I can determine.

Right now though, I'm getting pissed off with the conservative nature found even in some liberal churches and the so-called New Age groups. While they preach a "no judgment" gospel, they do not practice it as well as I'd like to see.

I have my small pockets of supporters within Central Florida--pagans, some Unitarian-Universalists, and select individuals whose brains are still in gear--but, ironically, much of my support seems to be shifting to other areas. I now have distributors in California, Arizona, Alaska, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and perhaps others I can't remember at the moment.

I have volunteers who are helping me increase distributorships in many other areas. The principle volunteer even wants me to go international. He tells me that there is no other publication that he has seen anywhere that compares to Paradox . Knowing that he travels extensively in the course of his work, that's a high compliment.

Nichols: You've sometimes been rebuffed by people made nervous by your pro-sexual (and gay-equal) stances--people who are otherwise considered "liberals". What's up with these folks.

Van Dyke: Almost everyone in our culture is up-tight with sexuality. Two of the three Brevard County Unitarian-Universalist churches where I have spoken seem to have put my speaking engagements on hold.

Whether this has to do with sexual issues or merely the fact that I refer to some of them as "right-wing" liberals I'm not sure. You have to understand that I always try to encourage people to expand their thinking beyond wherever they happen to be now.

If they are uncomfortable with sexuality and want to grow, they need to look at that area. If they are died-in-the-wool rationalists, they need to consider that mysticism may indeed hold important answers.

We are all bigger, all more than our present point of view and our self-definitions. Of course growth is scary, requiring, as it does, venturing into unknown territory. That's what's up with most people--good, old-fashioned fear!

Nichols: You've made connections between spirituality and sexuality. What are some of your current findings?

Van Dyke: To me, spirituality and sexuality are the same energy. It is merely Life Force. It is the primordial urge and divine urging to reunify that which has become separate. But it involves the whole person, in fact, the whole human race.

It is merely a matter of making the unconscious contents of our souls conscious ... and then making the choice to love everything that is, without applying condemning labels as we have always done and been taught to do by our repressionist religious teachers and teachings. Love heals!

Nichols: Which various movements and organizations have shown an interest in the messages that Paradox prints?

Van Dyke: That seems like a repeat of sorts. In the current expansion effort two groups stand out as showing special interest. One, from Phoenix, Arizona, calls themselves "Liberated Christians." They are advocates of nudity and I expect to be printing some of their beliefs in the next issue.

The other is a group from Asheville, North Carolina called The Nepal Institute. They are a Tantric Sex teaching network. Another group from New Jersey just made contact today, but I haven't looked at their stuff in any detail yet.

Nichols: My own Badpuppy/GayToday columns have appeared in Paradox for a year now. Have you gotten flack in conservative domains for printing these?

Van Dyke: Yes, some have called or written that your articles and others dealing with sexuality issues have no place in a spiritual publication. This is to be expected since there are so many narrow-minded people in this area. As you know, over a year and a half ago, one man, a Merritt Island school teacher, began a campaign against me.

He goes out of his way to pull things out of context and then writes letters and calls my advertisers and distributors to dissuade them from supporting such an "evil" person as he believes I am. I understand that others have joined his efforts. Whether they work with him directly or alone, I'm not sure. I do know that they hounded Barnes and Noble managers till Paradox was removed from all stores that had been distribution points. I am going to take on that corporate giant in the next issue -- sort of like David against Goliath.

It's sad that the cliche is true: "The squeaky wheel gets the oil." People who like something say nothing. People who dislike it, complain. I wish more people would help me, especially with this Barnes & Noble mess. They were my largest distributor.

Nichols: There's a sense of near-magic in what you do and in spite of your hard-nosed quest, I sense a feeling that you have that longs to promote better human relationships. What kind of attitudes have you found that you think are important when people--gay or straight--are seeking more loving relationships?

Van Dyke: We must understand the dynamics of growth. Whether we like it or not, want it or not, we are being thrust into the cauldron of creation, which to me is the womb of wisdom. What does that mean? It means the pot is being heated so that the transformation from lead to gold can take place. Yes, ancient alchemy.

Of course it's not about metals. It never really was. It's about human transformation. It is both wonderful and terrifying, depending on your perspective and what phase you are personally experiencing in your own life.

Understanding that so many of us are being stretched to our limits, the most important attitude is to recognize the transpersonal element. That may sound cold, but it's not. Deep-seated issues are being brought forth from our personal and collective unconscious. As these come into conscious awareness, we must be cognizant that it's bigger than personality.

That way, hopefully, we will not wound or be wounded quite so badly by the exposure of these denizens of the deep that must come out into the light of day.

Remember, relationships are the catalysts that trigger the openings in our vast beings. The more intimate, the more growth producing the possibilities.

We must make every effort to truly accept one another. Without acceptance of differences, understanding is impossible. Without understanding, relationships can only be shallow at best.

Nichols: Is monogamy a necessary prerequisite to happiness?

It may actually be a hindrance! But there are no absolutes. At the deepest part of my being I still long for union with the rest of me. Is that ONE special person? I'm not sure. Six months or even less ago, I thought it was. Right now, I do not know.

Nichols: Your current issue emphasizes the work of some healing groups. If someone has a terminal disease--what kind of healing remains possible to them?

Van Dyke: I just lost a close friend to cancer last Friday. I was there on Tuesday and Wednesday spending time with her. I felt totally helple watching her die. Do I still believe in healing? Absolutely. The only kind of healing I'm interested in though, is one that heals the whole person.

Perhaps it may sound a bit strange, but often diseases open people to the greatest love and understandings possible. I read somewhere a few years back about a man who had AIDS. His story was that he knew himself for the first time in his life as a result of his "misfortune". Attitude is truly everything in these situations.

The truth is, we are all under a death sentence as humans. All terminal diseases do is make us more aware of this "reality". Becoming aware, we can either choose to love or to continue in the grip of fear. As I said before: Love heals!

Nichols: Small, effective discussion groups are often rent by various kinds of political differences. What are some of the problems you've seen arise in the varied groups you address and what are some of the ways in which they can handle them?

Van Dyke: Yes, your question relates to my story in the current issue about the singles group. The biggest problem is with the PMA people--you know, Positive Mental Attitude. They don't like to deal with problems that arise naturally whenever people get together. They want everything kept under the rug and in the closet.

That attitude, to me, perpetuates everything that's wrong with our society. By trying to shut out the negative, negativity ends up running (or is it ruining) the show from the unconscious.

Regarding my particular situation, I'm still torn here, questioning myself and all. Did I do the right thing in making the facts known? Some have said I did; others condemn me heartily. As with relationships, groups can bring out some powerful dynamics to be dealt with.

I'm not sure I'm qualified to give how to's in handling some of these problems. I stumble along the best I can and say "I'm sorry" and "I was wrong" when I feel it is warranted.

If everyone would do that, it would make groups more conducive to growth than they sometimes appear to be. I'm speaking tonight at the singles group on Sacred Secrets of Sexuality.

This week all hell has broken loose in regard to my topic and the article in April's Paradox. You were aware of the e-mail firestorm as two women tore into me. I got almost seventy e-mails in three days. Perhaps you'd like to share a sentence or two about your reaction? We'll see how the dynamics play out, won't we?

You've added some pretty good humor pages to Paradox. Briefly, what are some favorite provocative stories or jokes you've printed?

Van Dyke: I don't think I have a favorite. My favorite topic may be the jokes that poke fun at the way religionists handle sexuality -- hypocritically. I also like the lawyer jokes. Oh, what do I care! Most of them are good because I believe humor is essential to our well being. We must be willing and able to laugh at ourselves. Perhaps my favorite "provocative" story is in this issue: "The Hopping Stone Vision" told by David Sunfellow.

A wise old Indian asks a young brave who could not find his place in the medicine wheel of life because all the stones representing the different types of people were too hot to sit upon.

"And do you know why they argue so, day and night, age upon age, without ceasing?"

"Because they do not understand one another?"

"Yes. And do you know why they do not understand one another?"

"No."

"Because they sit in one place all the time and can not yet hop [from stone to stone] as you do."

Oh, yes! It is humor, and inspirational stories like this one that give us reflections of ourselves that can aid in our healing.

Nichols: You've also defended a "gentleman's club" which provides relief to men with pent-up tensions. Tell me about it.

Van Dyke: Yes, The Boardroom in Cocoa, Florida. I've known Margie, the owner, for over four years now. She is one of the most loving people I know. Everyone who works there must do emotional healing work as a requisite to remaining employed. She is very metaphysically inclined and encourages growth for all employees and management. I have been a part time relief manager off and on almost as long as I've known her. For the past few months I have been working one shift per week. This gives me enough to pay my essential bills. I've never been a customer, however, nor do I get freebies. It's too bad. Mighty pretty ladies work there! I believe it's probably unique among adult entertainment clubs in that there is no hustling of the clients. The price for the private relaxation sessions includes everything that is permitted, and the limitations are stated up front. Anyone may tour the club for free.

Nichols: Your relationships with Central Florida's gay communities—where magazine racks seem to welcome Paradox--have grown dramatically in the past year. Tell me a little about your own experience as a straight man talking at length for the first time with gay and lesbian people.

Van Dyke: Yes, in the Orlando area this is true. I did feel a bit strange walking into these places for the first time. It wasn't so much talking to people because by this time I had moved beyond judgment. What was a problem was my worrying about being mistaken for a gay man. Maybe I shouldn't admit that. After all, I've been approached by gay men since my early twenties, and I merely told my truth: "I'm not gay?" I made major strides in this fear last Fall though, when my son played with his band at an AIDS benefit. While there, I danced with a (gay) man for the very first time. I even wrote about it in Paradox. I hope I'm to the place now where I truly don't give a damn what people think. A reputation is great thing to lose!

I was greatly encouraged by one man who told how he and his lover read the jokes in Paradox on the night he died with AIDS. He thanked me for filling their last moments together with laughter. Another person at the Gay & Lesbian Community Center told me how all the copies of one of the issues was gobbled up when someone read from one of the articles at a meeting.

One of my earliest supporters is also gay. I did not know it for quite a while, but we have had some wonderful conversations. Even though his financial situation has changed and he cannot advertise at present, he remains a great friend.

Lesbians. Hmmm. Even as a Fundamentalist Christian I never had a problem with women loving women ... most men don't, perhaps even envisioning a "menage." I know (and have known) several lesbian and bi-sexual ladies. The last couple years I have become very good friends with some of these. One I met at the GLCC in Orlando was going to do an article for me, but I'm still waiting.

Nichols: What are some of your hopes dreams for the future of Paradox?

Van Dyke: Paradox is evolving. From the very first issue I have had pychics and other prognosticators predict wonderful things for the magazine. As I already mentioned, one of my volunteers wants to help me take it international.

After all, not all Americans remain narrow-minded bigots. I'm living proof. I suppose my biggest dream is that very soon I will have enough supporters to be able to actually earn a living doing what I love to do. The magazine will grow. My opposition will assure it. But I deserve to be able to afford my own place to live, to either fix my ten-year-old car with almost 230,000 miles or buy a new one, and to not have to cut so many corners because of limited finances. I know some people don't like me to say that because they believe it only reinforces the negative, holding it in my life. I believe they are wrong and hope so too. Whatever "they" believe, this is the truth of "my" experience.

Nichols: What attitudes and findings--even through lean times--has sustained you as one monthly issue of Paradox after another has been published?

Van Dyke: Jack, I'm doing what I love! I believe in myself. I believe in people. I believe in God beyond yet within us all. I realize that it appears I am polarizing people. That's because my message is so unique.

The natural, initial reaction to anything new and different is to fear and resist it. Ultimately, however, people will begin to see that we must integrate polarities instead of polarizing them. This is what I mean by making peace with the paradox. We are all enigmatic beings on our way to discovering our own awesome wonderfulness. As more and more do, we will change the world. My part is just I little piece I contribute freely. I am honored to be able to do so. Thank you for widening my audience.

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